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Mike
Member
Posts: 73

First let me say that Not all schools are like this, this is just a observation based on changes that have taken place in the Arts over the years.

In the mid 60"s Martial Arts classes were for the most part different then today, Blood, sweat and tears were part of the curriculum, standing in a horse stance till your legs gave out,getting hit with bamboo,instructors yelled more then they gave praise, belt tests had a 90% failure rate, yet students advanced, the classes were more like boot camp, it was not about fun and games, but there was a true feeling of accomplishment and camaraderie, belts bonded together in solidarity, there was a pride in the schools that just felt different, maybe its just because I was young and am looking back.

Again I am NOT saying schools of today are lacking.  I am not saying students of today do not earn.

I have to ask myself was this kind of training better? Can students of today handle hard core training? Knuckles bleeding, limping home after class, ribs hurting?

Yesterday I had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Britton, one of the subjects we spoke about was "old days of training" and it made me smile, even though I had not ever met Mr.Brittion before, I felt kind of a bond with him due to the training we received in the past,....OLD SCHOOL

I have to wonder ...........

So the question I have is ......hard core training as a base is it out dated? or as Americans with our instant sense of gratification to pampered to deal with it ?

 

Bro in the Arts

Mike

 

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July 1, 2010 at 2:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Steven Almeida
Member
Posts: 3

I don't think that the "Old School" training isn' t out there anymore, but very hard to find.  That was just a normal day at MWK.  I don't remember a day where we were never sore and beat up. LOL. I wouldn't trade it for the world !!

July 1, 2010 at 10:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Glen Daugherty
Member
Posts: 5

The old school trainging is no more. hard core taining was back in the day at  MWK. It was train   Hard or Go Home.  I do not think students today can train hard core..

 

I have to say I would`t trade it for the wold also!!!  

July 1, 2010 at 11:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mike
Member
Posts: 73

WOW, Guys thanks for the kind words about MWK, I feel blessed to be part of it ,I also feel grateful to Joe from the IKKA, Joe has given me the inspiration to move ahead and make MWK reopen,and to allow me to post so many things.......... and to Mr. Britton who made me realize that there is a need for the "old school" style of training. Paul words can not express what you and Joe have done for me, all I can say is thank you both.

I also am happy to say that I have been in touch with some family members from Naga, there is a good chance that we will be petitioning to bring them here, also My wife wants to convert part of our home in to a family dojo like they had over there!!!

If it was not for the IKKA, I would never had the motivation to move ahead,

THANK YOU ALL

bro in the arts

Mike

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July 2, 2010 at 3:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Glen Daugherty
Member
Posts: 5

I thank a school needs to be open like MWK. If you are think of opening up a school i would like to be part of that.Lets talk i`am training again  because of me talk to mike  through the IKKA I would not have the fire again thank you. To all with IKKA. 

July 2, 2010 at 6:54 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Luis Gines
Member
Posts: 17

Hello sirs,

 

I don't want to be a pessimist but I believe that today is basically impossible to use the old-school / style of teaching.  Society changes with time and you can basically see it in todays youth.  Not bashing any generation but definitely today cannot handle old school training.

 

Besides, using this old school type of training does not please the masses; hence, making it impossible to use if you are running a commercial dojo.  Plus, how about laws?  People forget martial arts are a contact sport and you make them fill out waivers or release forms, but this does not change the fact that in today's laws you can get sued for basically hitting "too hard" .

 

I definitely like the old school method.  I've practiced for 17 years now and I was my professors punching bag when it came out to teach techniques, so I got hit, constantly and hard.  Today, you have to be very picky who you use and how "hard" or "real" you hit.

 

Just dropping some quick thoughts outthere.

 

Best regards,

Luis

 

July 9, 2010 at 1:43 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Joe Whelan
Member
Posts: 18

Well, if your a painter you will get paint on you, a chef gets burnt in the kitchen and in Martial Arts you will get hit...just comes with the territory..there is an old saying  " we cry in the dojo and laugh on the street " ...I love Kenpo....


Thanks for all the blogs..

Joe Whelan

IKKA President

July 9, 2010 at 1:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Luis Gines
Member
Posts: 17

Mr. Whelan,

 

I agree with your comments, but what about if I drop paint on another person's silk jacket, or burn their meal in one in a lifetime event as a wedding or accidentally hit someone excessively hard?

 

These are definitely things that come with the territory but does not exempt us from the responsability of it.

 

Hence, these days, old-school/style of teaching may not be the best way.

 

Let's put it this way, when we were kids and we stepped out of line. . . our parents would put us back in line in a jiffy (is that term correct? jajaja) Today, even kids are suing parents!! Times have definitely changed, and so we have been forced to change the ways we teach.

 

Just commenting, no intentions of offending or aguing with anyone :)

 

P.S. Mr. Whelan, I loe the old saying!!  ;)

 

July 11, 2010 at 1:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mike
Member
Posts: 73

I just don't get it, if you were to attend a boxing school, you would of course expect to get punched, a mma/ufc school again you would be trained hard, yet for some odd reason people think Martial Arts should be fun and games, Martial arts is the art of war,So much of our material deal with breaking bones, ripping eyes, and in some cases death. It is serious business.

I don't think it is for everyone,and it should not be. Over the years I have gone to and have seen  many schools that give a great illusion, I have also seen many "Black Belts" get destroyed in a street fight.

I personally feel this new improved way of teaching should be left  to little dragon classes, I will be the first to admit that I am old school and I am very proud of the fact,

but you have to know what old school really is.....as a teacher it is my job to push a student to go beyond there limitations, not by brutal treatment,  not giving instant gratification, not passing them in a belt test if they do not earn it,making them work harder then they thought possible, I had 93 very active students so I know for fact that people want this, and if some student came to me and said they could not deal with it, I would send them to a neighboring dojo. also as I teacher I had to work  5 times harder then any of my students there is no short cuts but it really depends on what you want from your school.

many years ago if you were not good enough to make the team...guess what you found something else to do and you tried again next year, now everyone gets a trophy, cus we are all winners.

I would rather have 5 students that really wanted to be trained then 50 who thought it would be fun.

July 13, 2010 at 8:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Luis Gines
Member
Posts: 17

Mike,


I totally agree with your thoughts and comments. . .  but 5 students won't pay the rent!!


I do agree that EPAK is way different than other systems.  Not only do we have the forms, sets, positions, kicks, puches, etc. . . we have tons of techs to learn hence not making it as easy as other systems in the market.  Is sad when a student leaves because they forget the purpose of the Martial Arts and go for the quick black belt experience, but it's for the best. Like you say Mike, those 5 are definitley better to keep! :)


Great comments Mike!! Thanks!!

August 28, 2010 at 2:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

paul dyer
Member
Posts: 13

as the young developing studen we must teach them hard core training i myself put myself to the old ways of training to condition my mind and body so why not teach that waY

August 30, 2010 at 10:26 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Mike
Member
Posts: 73

over the last month I have been to at least 15 different schools in the Cleveland area, just to see what is out there, I am in culture shock........


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September 12, 2010 at 5:08 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Brian
Member
Posts: 3

Is there any school that is doing it right? Or is having a commercial school and "doing it right" mutually exclusive due to restrictions and liabilities and trying to appeal to the masses? Does doing it right mean going "off the grid" so to speak or tailoring a program for a small group of like-minded people? Just thinking out loud...

September 18, 2010 at 2:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Mark
Member
Posts: 4

Back in the old days, or the "hard days", instructors taught for the love of it, not the money. That meant there were tens of people training. Now days, instructors teach for money, which means they need thousands to train. In order to collect that many different and varied people, the arts had to be softened up and watered down. You can't let a paycheck walk out the door just because a few of your students want to train hard, now can you?

September 26, 2010 at 5:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Paul Britton
Member
Posts: 19

Mark at September 26, 2010 at 5:59 PM

Back in the old days, or the "hard days", instructors taught for the love of it, not the money. That meant there were tens of people training. Now days, instructors teach for money, which means they need thousands to train. In order to collect that many different and varied people, the arts had to be softened up and watered down. You can't let a paycheck walk out the door just because a few of your students want to train hard, now can you?

I have taken the time to read through the rsponses to old school verses modern day ways of training.  The first word that comes to mind is ( Respect ) For those who make the choice for what they choose to do. I know from personal experience that if you operate a commercial, and you have to rely on that school for your very income and existance. Then you have to understand the way of commercial training verses hard core old school training.

 

Its not a matter of hard core training no longer existing, but a matter of getting accepted into an old school training program. Many schools still train old school, but its not mentioned until it's asked for, and then its very hard to get into the program. Many student say they want old school, but have no idea what old school training requires.

 

There's two parts to every program ( The teachers willingness to teach ) ( And the students willingness to learn ) If either one of those fail, You have no success.

 

I make it very difficult for anyone to train old school with me. Because Im not going to waste my time if they are not going to give 110 percent of themselves to do it. And Im very upfront about it.

 

If a school is not your main source of income, and you choose to train old school only, then you are to be respected just as much as those who choose to run their schools by modern day commercial principles. It becomes a personal choice as well as a financial choice. Regardless of which method you choose. I have heard Living kenpo legends elaborate the fact that the old school was good but created long term problems as well, and many wouldnt do it again even if they were younger.

September 29, 2010 at 12:38 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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